Category: group answer

let me try it a different way…i just finished the horrible season 6 finale. i could have forgiven all of the many holes and loose ends, but not Peter Quinn’s death. i’m done with it; but i do have questions for ALL of you. they will be in next “ask”

1. did you feel the same emotion about the show after season 6? 2. what was the purpose of the max scene?? 3. creaking of the floor? 4.when dar asks Saul about checking in on a fellow at GW, do any of you think there is any chance the fellow could be Quinn?

Sara: I can sense you’re looking for some kind of validation from those of us here, for someone to tell you that Quinn is alive. That there must be some sort of reason behind the sloppy storytelling. There’s no reason. It was just bad storytelling. The character is dead. I apologize for being blunt, but we’ve literally been fielding questions about this, about the GW professor, about the creak in the stair, about Quinn’s “safe place,” for two years now. 

I encourage you to explore the April 2017 archives or maybe the FAQ where we give answers to common S6 questions. The headspace reflected in the answers there is a lot more similar to yours right now than anyone’s around here. 

To answer your questions:

1. Yes, I felt season six was a pile of trash. From start to finish.  

2. The purpose of the Max scene was to show that the media tried to spin a narrative about Quinn being a “super hero” that stripped him of his elemental humanity and also SURPRISE! Quinn carried around a picture of Carrie for years, which is enough to break Carrie once and for all, after Saul says she’s not acknowledged his death. 

3. Carrie lived in an old ass Brookyln brownstone and she felt figuratively haunted by Quinn’s memory there. In other words: ~symbolism, not a sign.

4. Quinn is not David Exley. Quinn is dead. 

Also, not that you asked, but season seven is about 854,000 times better than season six and a not-insignificant part of that IMO is the lifted weight from the writers’ shoulders of not having to write for a character they really didn’t know how to write or give a shit about. But different strokes and all that jazz. 

Gail:  Here is a link to an article published by TVLine in the fall of 2017 about Rupert Friend not returning and LLG confirming Quinn’s death. Many of us were devastated when it happened, so we get where you are coming from. In addition to what Sara wrote above, you should also check out the #quinnspiracy2k17 tag. Now that I’m almost 2 years post the season 6 finale debacle, watched season 7, read every interview done about the show, I have to co-sign Sara’s answer above. She’s giving it to you straight and it’s tough to swallow, but I think it’s the truth. In my fiction, Quinn is alive and secretly living just off camera, keeping watch over Carrie and Franny. But that’s fic–I don’t see any scenario where he is back on the actual show unless in a flashback capacity.

Frangi: I was hoping for Quinn’s return from the death for a long time after season 6, but after season 7 I don’t see any way how this should play out. Personally I cannot imagine any satisfying storyline how to make this happen in a meaningful, credible way which would also do the character any justice. It’s a truth which took me a long time to accept so I feel where you are coming from but I think Sara outlined the many reasons why Quinn won’t come back and why the writers took the story elsewhere perfectly.

let me try it a different way…i just finished the horrible season 6 finale. i could have forgiven all of the many holes and loose ends, but not Peter Quinn’s death. i’m done with it; but i do have questions for ALL of you. they will be in next “ask”

1. did you feel the same emotion about the show after season 6? 2. what was the purpose of the max scene?? 3. creaking of the floor? 4.when dar asks Saul about checking in on a fellow at GW, do any of you think there is any chance the fellow could be Quinn?

Sara: I can sense you’re looking for some kind of validation from those of us here, for someone to tell you that Quinn is alive. That there must be some sort of reason behind the sloppy storytelling. There’s no reason. It was just bad storytelling. The character is dead. I apologize for being blunt, but we’ve literally been fielding questions about this, about the GW professor, about the creak in the stair, about Quinn’s “safe place,” for two years now. 

I encourage you to explore the April 2017 archives or maybe the FAQ where we give answers to common S6 questions. The headspace reflected in the answers there is a lot more similar to yours right now than anyone’s around here. 

To answer your questions:

1. Yes, I felt season six was a pile of trash. From start to finish.  

2. The purpose of the Max scene was to show that the media tried to spin a narrative about Quinn being a “super hero” that stripped him of his elemental humanity and also SURPRISE! Quinn carried around a picture of Carrie for years, which is enough to break Carrie once and for all, after Saul says she’s not acknowledged his death. 

3. Carrie lived in an old ass Brookyln brownstone and she felt figuratively haunted by Quinn’s memory there. In other words: ~symbolism, not a sign.

4. Quinn is not David Exley. Quinn is dead. 

Also, not that you asked, but season seven is about 854,000 times better than season six and a not-insignificant part of that IMO is the lifted weight from the writers’ shoulders of not having to write for a character they really didn’t know how to write or give a shit about. But different strokes and all that jazz. 

Gail:  Here is a link to an article published by TVLine in the fall of 2017 about Rupert Friend not returning and LLG confirming Quinn’s death. Many of us were devastated when it happened, so we get where you are coming from. In addition to what Sara wrote above, you should also check out the #quinnspiracy2k17 tag. Now that I’m almost 2 years post the season 6 finale debacle, watched season 7, read every interview done about the show, I have to co-sign Sara’s answer above. She’s giving it to you straight and it’s tough to swallow, but I think it’s the truth. In my fiction, Quinn is alive and secretly living just off camera, keeping watch over Carrie and Franny. But that’s fic–I don’t see any scenario where he is back on the actual show unless in a flashback capacity.

Frangi: I was hoping for Quinn’s return from the death for a long time after season 6, but after season 7 I don’t see any way how this should play out. Personally I cannot imagine any satisfying storyline how to make this happen in a meaningful, credible way which would also do the character any justice. It’s a truth which took me a long time to accept so I feel where you are coming from but I think Sara outlined the many reasons why Quinn won’t come back and why the writers took the story elsewhere perfectly.

Group ask. Is there anything you want resolved in the final season? What do you wish for in order to walk away from this series fulfilled? What could make you very angry after the finale?

Sara: I mean, I literally only care about Carrie. I hope they have some sort of resolution in the ups and downs of her relationship with Saul. Carrie getting a star on the wall would make me really angry – not because it would make me angry if she died (though if she died in particular ways I’d probably be angry), but I just really dislike that potential ending. 

Ashley: I don’t think this series is going to leave me feeling satisfied in any way, shape, or form. I can’t imagine it otherwise. I anticipate turning off the television and sitting in a dark room for a while, contemplating the end of it. I likewise can’t think of anything that will make me angry. I feel like I have reached a healthy place with this show.

…but ask me again after season 8 starts.

Julie: Somehow I’m fine with the ending of the series and I can’t imagine anything right now that would get me really angry. However, I’m expecting an unsolved end, with no winner, and with one or more deaths of major or beloved characters. Homeland is not known to resolve ambiguous allusions they’ve made in the past, but I’d love to keep trust in Carrie until the end and not question her.

Gail: I’m one of the rare people that actually understood the ending of LOST, so I’m hoping I will have that same clarity with the ending of Homeland. I am not approaching season 8 with a list of things I’d like resolved – I don’t think Homeland has ever worked like that. I think the questions that will need to be answered are very similar to those posed in Season 1. How could a patriot see the atrocities of war first hand, lose everything, watch the government they fight for do unspeakable things and have that not break them? Was it all worth it in the end? Homeland is never a zero sum game – so my hope is that whatever the final answers are – Carrie ends the series on her own terms. I also wouldn’t mind a Khan cameo…and that Tasneem gets whats coming to her. 

Angela: Well, I don’t expect jack-shit to get resolved, and honestly, I know I will feel deep relief at the end, regardless of what happens during the season. I’ll just be hanging on for the ride, so at this point, nothing will make me angry. I just hope it makes for good television.

Group ask: Homeland has never failed to shock me with their finales. What would be the most surprising end to this series for you?

Sara: Carrie lives and Saul dies. 

Ashley: A Newhart-style finale where Angela Chase wakes up from a terrible dream.

Sara: Ok now I want Ashley’s ending. Just de-age Claire 30 years with 3 half ponys!!!!

Frangi: Quinn comes back. Carrie finds balance between private life and professional calling.

Julie: Carrie survives the end of the show.

Gail: A finale that shows Carrie living happily ever after. Also, Ashley’s ending.

Group ask: With the final season coming up, is there anyone you’d like to see return? (Besides Quinn, obviously.) I’d love to see Javadi. We don’t know if he’s really dead, do we? Perhaps Virgil? Would love to see him and Max together again. Martha with Saul? Still love Parvez from S4. Then there’s Lockhart!! Do you think they will or should bring a few back? Probably no one, right? What’s the mantra? “It’s not the Homelandian way?” Now I’m depressed. It’s all over this time next year.⛈🌧🌦⛅️🌤☀

Ashley: Dana Brody! She’s all grown up now and I want to know how she’s doing. 

Sara: Definitely Lockhart. I wouldn’t mind checking in on Dana and Jessica in an exclusive web series or something. To see them on the show would be too weird. Also Jonas because the reaction would be amazing. #saragonnatroll


Julie
: Revenge for Fara! A confrontation with Haqqani and Carrie.

Gail: In order of appearance preference: Lockhart, Javadi, Khan (I know, I know–the heart wants what it wants people!), Haqqani, Virgil and absolutely every single other character before any member of the Brody family.

Sara: Great, so we have two votes for Jonas!!

Frangi: Javadi. Haqqani. Lockart. Virgil. Martha. Mira. John jr telling us his father is alive on an Island.

Thoughts on Claire’s dress at the Tony Awards? Let’s just say it wouldn’t have been my choice.

Frangi: There’s no good way to cover a 6-months-pregnant bump for a big night out and there’s nothing more uncomfortable than having to find a dress that allows you and the baby space but doesn’t look like a bin bag or candy box and doesn’t make you collapse from heat. So no pregnant Claire shaming here. 

Sara: If you’re six months pregnant and cool with rocking some silvery pink leopard Valentino, fuckin’ go for it, sister! (I try to read Go Fug Yourself and Tom & Lorenzo after awards like these and was surprised that they were both kinda into it? Go figure!) 

Sara (updated this morning): I’m way more interested in talking about what she wore to the Public Theater Gala last night…. I think this is a red jumpsuit under that black overcoat. She is typically a goob and Hugh and his wayward curl are looking at her like “you are such a goob.” 

Ashley: God I want just a series of Claire’s silly outfits.

Sara: Remind me in a week.  

Group ask! I love the tv show recommendations for things that won’t ruin your life. do you have any book recommendations? Looking for summer reading. Thank you in advance!

Ashley: Books are a little bit tougher than tv series for me, because they’re more personal. Here are some of my faves, though. A Trip to the Stars by Nicholas Christopher is the last book I stayed up until 4am reading — and you should know by now how big a deal that is for me. If you’re into mysteries, my current fave is Encore by Alexis Koetting; it’s so topsy turvy that I never had any idea what was going on. Scarlett Thomas’s book, The End of Mr. Y, is a hell of a thinker, but incredibly cool. Devil in the White City, by Erik Larson, is nonfiction and wicked fascinating.

And I’d be remiss if I didn’t recommend Howard Gordon’s books, Hard Target and Gideon’s War. Like everything else HG does, they’re really fun and thrilling. 

Sara: I don’t read as much as I want to, but my fabulous mother does and she’s been bugging me for weeks to read The Power. I haven’t yet. I now have a long ass commute (2+ hours daily), so I think I’m going to listen to it. 


Julie
: I don’t have much time for reading because of so many hobbies. That’s why I started audio books–so I could multitask. The last books I read were the series of forensic anthropologist David Hunter by Simon Beckett. And currently I am listening to the thrillers of Andreas Gruber and Chris Carter.

Gail: I like to rotate between fun/lighter books and more serious stuff. Currently, I am reading the Crazy Rich Asians trilogy by Kevin Kwan. It’s funny, filled with lots of FASHUN and super interesting family dynamics. I’d definitely recommend it (I just finished book 2). The first book has been turned into a movie that is coming out in July–here is the link for the movie trailer.

Alex Gansa has previously talked about how Valerie Plame (a former covert CIA officer) was a source of inspiration for Carrie’s character. She has written two spy thrillers, Burned and Blowback, based on a (blonde) female covert ops CIA agent, Vanessa Pierson (who has a secret on again/off again relationship with a fellow agent who just happens to be tall, dark and handsome, tee hee), as she tries to track down the latest international threat. I’d highly recommend those for anyone who likes a good spy thriller.

But next up on my list after I finish the trilogy is Ronan Farrow’s new book, War on Peace… I cannot wait to dive into that!

Rank the finales from most to least traumatic, please? Thank you!

Frangi: This is Homeland. All finales are traumatic in one way or another. But seeing Quinn dying twice is a close call with Carrie being totally off the rocker. But seeing Brody dangling from a crane – well, as I said, it’s Homeland…

Sara: from most to least traumatic… 7 > 1 > 6 > 3 > 5 > 2 > 4

Julie: I’m not traumatized at all. I watch for these intense moments. I think season 6 was the most disappointing one because Quinn died from two shoulder wounds.

Gail: I’m with Frangi. It wouldn’t be Homeland if they didn’t make it hurt. From most to least for me… 6, 1, 3, 5, 7, 2, 4.

Group ask: now the seventh season is over, how would you guys rank the seasons from best to worst?

Julie: I’d say it come at the same level like season 4. 2, 1, 4, 7, 3, 5, 6

Frangi: 4, 1, 3, 2 – and then it’s getting difficult. If season 5 and 6 had led to any different outcome or any greater plot resolution in season 7 I’d be willing to forgive some shortcomings or pay tribute to the seasons upping the stakes. But they didn’t. But on the other hand, they had a lot of Quinn. But if it’s about the overall narrative, my list would continue with 7, 5, 6.

Gail: I’d rank them 4, 2, 3, 7, 1, 5, 6 – I actually didn’t love season 1. Season 2 is where I was truly sold. 

Sara: I agree with Julie. Season 7 and season 4 are equally good in my eyes. 1 > 4 = 7 > 2 > 3 > 5 >>>>>>>>>>>> 6

Ashley: Sara’s math checks out.

If I remember correctly Gansa & Co. said that Quinn will be mourned or his death will have an impact or something like that. Up to this point, do you think they kept their word? Do you think they did enough or not?

Sara: I believe what Gansa said was that Quinn would color Carrie’s every thought, and I think given her sharp decline and downward spiral this year, without him, that is what happened. She was utterly alone, fell into a relationship (with Dante) where she was used and manipulated, suffered a complete psychotic breakdown, and then had to pull herself up out of it. 

I was never expecting a flashback or a funeral or even a graveside scene, so the fact that (thus far) there hasn’t been that… it doesn’t bother me (then again, I never watched the show for him, so I didn’t need to see those things). I think his presence in how he “colored Carrie’s thoughts” was felt in more subtle ways (the show’s treatment of his absence this year feels similar to me to how they treated Brody’s in season four).

Quinn was Carrie’s safety net–subconsciously, at least–for many years and IMO she needed to make shitty decisions and feel the consequences in order to learn to live without his constant offer to save her from herself. That’s growth.

Frangi: I don’t think there‘s anything they could do that would feel enough after all they did and didn’t do in season 6, so I didn’t have high expectations. Carrie always internalized most of her feelings, and so it’s up to us to ponder whether we think she is grieving or not, and if she is, if it’s for a friend or for someone she loved. There’s the shrink scene and that gave some insight into Carrie’s state of mind and I found that well done. 

What really does bother me is that it comes down to Christine Lonas out of all people to mention Quinn‘s name–so unrelated to the question of whether Carrie is grieving or not (I think she is), I don’t think the show in general did do enough to honor Quinn’s importance in Carrie‘s life. But honestly, I didn’t expect them to after the clusterfuck of how they handled Quinn‘s departure all year long. Using Quinn footage in the opening credits feels rather cheap to me, especially after how they handled his absence during the first eleven episodes of the season. The subtle presence of–or, rather, the gaping void left by–his absence was once again only told via its effect on Carrie, so once more he wasn’t remembered for who he was but only for who Carrie is or isn’t when he‘s not around. But coming back to your question: I think they showed the impact his absence has. Most of what kicked off the events of season 7 wouldn’t have been possible with him being around, because he would always go to great lengths to keep Carrie safe. No car trunk drugs, no bankruptcy to finance an off-book operation, no sex pawn for the troll, and maybe even not all the courtroom drama that led to Carrie giving up Franny last week. 

ETA after 7.12: And now I want Quinn to come back from wherever and kick Yevgeny to hell.